p2pnet - rss feed: Limit number of burnable CDs
p2pnet.net News:- Close to a year ago SunnComm said it had successfully completed “the external testing phase” of a way to prevent consumers from copying CDs while still retaining replay compatibility with most CD and DVD players.
None of the ripper programs used in the testing process, “was able to produce a usable unauthorized copy of the protected CD, yielding a verifiable and commendable level of security for the SunnComm product,” Stereophile pointed out:
“Compatibility with consumer fair use rights was not noted.”
Next, SunnComm and BMG were blithely talking up the former’s by now much-vaunted technology demonstrated publicly on the latter’s $14 CD, Anthony Hamilton’s Comin’ From Where I’m From.
The CD was cracked about 10 seconds later.
And about 10 seconds after that, Princeton researcher John Halderman demonstrated how easy it was to copy an uncopy-able Sunncomm CD. Sunncomm was going to nail Halderman to the wall, but wisely decided against it.
But BMG is a sucker for punishment and is apparently once again thinking about using a Sunncomm system to try to thwart copying.
Macrovision and SunnComm International are rivals who’re developing competing versions of digital rights management (DRM) software meant to limit the number of backups that could be made from CDs and prevent copied, or “burned,” versions from being used to create further copies.
So says a CNET story here, going on:
“SunnComm said a version of its new ’secure burning’ technology is already being tested by BMG Music Group, the world’s fifth-largest record label and the most aggressive to date in pushing CD copy protection schemes in the United States. Macrovision’s version is expected to be ready in the next few months.”
It’s also interesting to note that the Big Five seem to be retreating from their carved-in-rock position that copying is Absolutely Forbidden.
“Record labels are seeking a way to let consumers make a limited number of copies of their music - enough for a car, a vacation home and a friend, for example - without allowing for uncontrolled duplication,” says the CNET story. “Under the current system, each copied CD can itself lead to an unlimited number of additional copies, cutting substantially into sales, they say.”
If they’re ” seeking a way to let consumers make a limited number of copies of their music,” why are they hammering Bob Moore and 321 Studios? Or are CDs different from DVDs?
June 2nd, 2004 at 6:03 pm
“Compatibility with consumer fair use rights was not noted.”
“Compatibility with consumer fair use rights was not noted.”
“Compatibility with consumer fair use rights was not noted.”
“Compatibility with consumer fair use rights was not noted.”
“Compatibility with consumer fair use rights was not noted.”
“Compatibility with consumer fair use rights was not noted.”
June 2nd, 2004 at 7:44 pm
Do they care? No.
If they could do it, they would have fair use ripped out of law by now.
Instead they work around it using the DMCA since they cannot remove the Home Recording Act.
June 2nd, 2004 at 8:27 pm
When will the music industry figure out that a nickel tax imposed on all recordable media will solve this silly issue….JJ
June 2nd, 2004 at 8:53 pm
“music” CD-Rs and cassette tapes (lots of those being sold these days…) already have a fee of this nature included. Speaking of cassettes, if the music goons get too greedy they could make a comeback!
June 2nd, 2004 at 9:01 pm
All that money going into worthless research to find out something that can not be done. Bunch of idiots.
June 2nd, 2004 at 10:51 pm
im not a bit worried, there is a way around everything. They wont be able to come up with a fool proof system because its impossible
June 2nd, 2004 at 11:14 pm
I can copy any uncopiable CD. I use the analog stereo line output to my computers anlog input. I defy someone to identify which is the original or copy. Many MP3 recorder /players do this already. I can also get all the music I could ever listen to by recording from shoutcast radio stations. The emphasis must be turned to affordable downloads like itunes. Forget the copy protection schemes and the fines from the RIAA.
June 3rd, 2004 at 12:16 am
Thats all well and good to copy your songs, but there is a substantial and noticeable loss of quality if you take that route. In the mp3 ripping scene its called a “line-in” and those are nuked for obvious reasons.
In other notes on the same topic, im really tired of hearing about all this “we’re losing money” shenanigans. The bands arent losing any money because they dont make enough to begin with, its ONLY the greedy record industry officials that are getting pissed off, starting rumor mills and pissing contests, saying “this band said this and that about cd copying”, when 9/10 times, its just their label pulling the strings. Obviously the bands are too scared to say anything, fearing being shitlisted and forced into debt. But they could sell a million records and still be $50,000+ in the hole, not seeing a dime until its paid off. Everyone by now knows that the record deal is made to boost their popularity, which gives them ticket sales in live shows, (cause and effect) if you love the music like that asshole, whats his name.. MICHAEL GREEN!! yeah, like michael green says, “Fans love their music, so they buy the cds”, or some shit that he said last year. Ive had Farts that sound better then he does, its ridiculous.
Thats not the point though, the point is that piracy is a market in and of itself. Macrovision, Suncomm, the list goes on..If they, the industry, didnt feel “threatened” by jimmy james making a copy of billy’s new limp bizkit cd, they wouldnt have a job. They should be kissing our asses, i tell ya. 100 bucks says that it was these type of groups that came up with the wonderful “Oh, i know why youre not making enough money, cd burners!!! Yeah, now pay us 5 million dollars and we’ll try to protect your assets and see that it doesnt happen as much” Straight up, I have never felt any anti-piracy effects from any of the anti-piracy groups, except for the IDSA who busted me for uploading to newsgroups on my home ISP, but that was my fault. I took the steps necessary and saw that it wouldnt happen again. I went on posting, and they could do nothing about it. Great system
-Emm_Pee
June 3rd, 2004 at 1:23 am
the people in the music and movie industry are full of s—.
I can can buy a professional standalone cd recorder from either sony or tascam or hhb for five hundred dollars that has a 3 way copy bit selector switch on these and i can make unlimited copies of the copied cdr.
This technology is exempt from the serial recording management systems on regular consumer grade cd burners.
This stuff is for professional musicians. The entertainment industry had a lot to do with killing the stand alone minidisc recorder.
I love minidiscs.
I can’t make direct digital recordings on a mp3 recorded disc to my minidisc or cd recorder using a digital output from a dvd player that plays mp3s.
Seriously the goverment ought to get out of the business of restricting digital recording in recording hardware.
Making just an analog copy or one digital generation copy does not cut it.
As soon as the asswipes come up with an anticopying scheme for cds There always is a computer freeware program to circumvent such illconceived systems.
You ought to know that people in congress are bought off by the entertainment industry.
I wish i could make that clear to all of those geeks and retards at maximumpc lifestyle lounge.com.
All they ever talk about is how to basically steal copyrighted material on the the internet at illegal websites and get involved in illegal things like cd and dvd copying.
Technically it is illegal to burn even music cds.
The only thing i would like to know as a musician why the entertainment indusrty should bust my balls and deprive me of the right to buy a piece of recording hardware including computers that don’t have anti copying technology built in .
All of those retards at maximumpc lifestyle lounge.com is reason why the entertainment industry gets up tight about people stealing their intellectual property.
June 3rd, 2004 at 1:26 am
the people in the music and movie industry are full of s—.
I can buy a professional standalone cd recorder from either sony or tascam or hhb for five hundred dollars that has a 3 way copy bit selector switch on these and i can make unlimited copies of the copied cdr.
This technology is exempt from the serial recording management systems on regular consumer grade cd burners.
This stuff is for professional musicians. The entertainment industry had a lot to do with killing the stand alone minidisc recorder.
I love minidiscs.
I can’t make direct digital recordings on a mp3 recorded disc to my minidisc or cd recorder using a digital output from a dvd player that plays mp3s.
Seriously the goverment ought to get out of the business of restricting digital recording in recording hardware.
Making just an analog copy or one digital generation copy does not cut it.
As soon as the asswipes come up with an anticopying scheme for cds There always is a computer freeware program to circumvent such illconceived systems.
You ought to know that people in congress are bought off by the entertainment industry.
I wish i could make that clear to all of those geeks and retards at maximumpc lifestyle lounge.com.
All they ever talk about is how to basically steal copyrighted material on the the internet at illegal websites and get involved in illegal things like cd and dvd copying.
Technically it is illegal to burn even music cds.
The only thing i would like to know as a musician why the entertainment indusrty should bust my balls and deprive me of the right to buy a piece of recording hardware including computers that don’t have anti copying technology built in .
All of those retards at maximumpc lifestyle lounge.com is reason why the entertainment industry gets up tight about people stealing their intellectual property.
June 3rd, 2004 at 2:48 am
“line-in” is 24bit for me on a rackmount breakout box. pro-audio recording set up. i know any rip i had to do that way would not be shunned by anyone with any common sense. it will sound “nearly” the same. an unfortunate voyage into analogue, but the loss will be lost on most ears anyway. furthermore, i love music. if i want to listen bad enough, my brain can compensate for poor encoding to an extent. when i get low quality video encodes, i just remove my galsses. BAM! my poor eyesight (im nearsighted) has just prevented me from seeing as many artifacts (and yes, detail). i listen/watch for content as much as quality. id listen to the blackstar album 50 times from a dubbed audio cassette before listening to a lossless encoded limp bizkit album-anyday.
June 3rd, 2004 at 3:00 am
quote: “The entertainment industry had a lot to do with killing the stand alone minidisc recorder.” where did you hear that? they are still readily available. i love my minidisc machines.
“Technically it is illegal to burn even music cds.”where did you hear that? the RIAA’s website? are you a member? is your label? do you have a label contract? you may mean it’s illegal to duplicate cd’s without the copyright holders’ permission. i tell people at my shows to buy my cd’s and copy them as fast as they can. it will pay off. i know the formula that a coproration peddling music will never understand. also, my computers dont have any copy protections built in. what country do you live in mr. musician?
lastly, people with meek means will always seek alternatives to things they cant afford, in response to your attack on maximumpc lifestyle lounge.com. if i cant afford food, do you think the law will prevent from eating because i can not buy it. i refuse to just starve. im going to a 24hours kroger. filling my basket, and running out the door at the last second. am i wrong? a bad person? nope. you do what you gotta do when the people with means(vast wealth) prevent you from getting what you need under an veil of econmic “morals”. remember richie riches of the world…the meek shall inherit the earth. and you cant front on that.
June 3rd, 2004 at 4:05 am
you are just as bad as those crazy people at maximumpc.com lifestyle lounge.
a bunch of LOST people,wards of the state,and people who don’t work a honest day’s work and a bunch of lost teenagers.
Just because the entertainment industry wants to be a bunch of assholes with their intellectual property still don’t give people the right to steal.
Your analogy about just because you don’t have any money to eat does not give a a person a right to steal.
Many places still in the country you can get jail time for stealing a loaf of bread .
yes you are a bad person.
You are breaking the law.
This is not maximumpc.lifestyle.com.
The only people who make stand alone minidisc recorders are sony and tascam.
I have been around pro audio gear for years.
And one last thing.There are many mp3 and cd copying programs that are copy protected .
That means there would be some restriction on some cd copying.
Dvd shrink and dvd decyrpter is IILEGAL in the unites states in case you have not heard.
Take your warped sense of logic over to lifestyle lounge because i don’t want to hear it.
Because of the massive theft involved in internet theft and pirating my chances of my work getting any notice by a record label have shrunk even more.
But , i just do that as a hobby.
This is a a free country.and i am stating an opinion and i could not care less if you don’t like it.
YOU SAVVE??
June 3rd, 2004 at 12:28 pm
“…involved in illegal things like cd and dvd copying.”
“Technically it is illegal to burn even music cds.”
Buzz, wrong, but thanks for playing.
Fair use means that I can (or rather should be able to) create a copy of any music CD or DVD that I buy for personal backup purposes. And that is the law in this free country, protecting my rights, thank you very much.
In the olden days, when my car tape player used to chew up tapes for a hobby, I’d never dream of putting an original tape in there. I’d make a copy (on a tape to tape machine), and play the copy, until it wore out or broke, then I’d have to make a new copy.
Same with CDs (and DVDs). I buy a CD, burn the contents into MP3 format as a back up. Then store the CD away somewhere nice and safe. I can then listen to the music (that I’ve paid a licence for) on my iPod, or in the car or round a friends house and so on, without worry of damaging/losing the original CD.
If, and this is a big if, I were to sell/give the original away and keep the copies, or give a copy away and then make another copy from the original, *then* it’d be illegal.
But it is my legal right, to be able to back a backup copy for personal use. A right protected by law. If a DVD comes out with protection on it that means I can’t make a backup copy, then that’s infringing my consumer rights.
I’ve paid for the DVD (or rather a licence to watch the contents) and the DVD gets scratched or damaged, I still *own* the rights to watch the contents, that’s what I paid for. I can infact legally download a copy, because I *still own the rights to view that content* as long as I own the original (abet now damaged) DVD.
But because of copy protection placed on the DVD I can’t make my own back-ups (as I should legally be allowed to do). So I have to resort to either using some method to get around the copy-protection to make my own legal backup, or downloading a copy.
Of course I could go out and buy a new DVD of the same film. But then I end up owning 2 licences to view the same content.
It’s the content(film/music) I’m buying not the medium it’s delivered on.
CD and DVD copying is not illegal, burning CDs is not illegal. Selling/giving away copies to people who haven’t purchased a licence for that content *is* illegal. Don’t get the two confused.
There are many of us legit users out here who don’t break the law, who are being either forced to not buy new CDs because we can’t make backups, or have to use programs that are deemed illegal to make our legal backups.
June 3rd, 2004 at 12:57 pm
Pleaseee! Your comparison to someone stealing food to survive and illegally copying CD’s is invalid, and ludicrous! You can’t possibly, with a straight face, rationalize that. Additionally, I doubt seriously that the majority of the lifestyle lounge.com people are destitute, as they apparently have net access, and the time to discuss ways to get around copyright issues!
A reality check is in order here… One, fair use has to be protected at all costs! I agree that the RIAA would have that abolished if they could, but they still need to be closely watched. Two, people that illegally post copyright material on the net in peer to peer fashion, or trade music in any media form, are not heros, they are just stealing.
Now before some moron accuses me of being a stooge for the RIAA, you better consider that if a product, for instance music, becomes unviable it will cease to exist as we know it. For you people that love to rationalize your illegal activity, that means that there is such a thing as dimishing returns. If everybody steals enough, eventually you will make it unprofitable to produce a product, as cost will outdistance sales.
There will be those that will say this can’t happen, and yes the recording industry will not go away. However, you can dramatically affect the industries ability to produce non-established artist, in the current numbers, thus by you own actions, limiting the quality and quantity of the product.
Like I said fair use is something that we should be trying to protect, not the illegal, mindless, twits that will eventually cause us all to pay in one way or another. If you don’t like the way the RIAA is doing business, organize a boycott and hit them where it hurts, while sending a clear message.
June 4th, 2004 at 2:12 am
man made laws are not always just. i follow a higher law. one that really matters. i feel confident that the road to hell is not paved by backing up discs or stealing food in order to prevent starvation. it is appearant that neither of you have been homeless. come back and comment when you lose you job, money, and residence. then reevaluate the insanity of my moral comparison.
pz
June 4th, 2004 at 3:46 am
I fully agree about your interpretation of fair use.
I was listening to some twit on c-span saying how it was technically illegal to back up a cd.
My mistake.
I know it is a sad comment in the united states the us congress and the entertainment industry are in bed together,pass the jackboot dmca and i have to sneak around on questionable websites to avail myself to illegal software like dvd shrink and dvd decypter just to back up music videos that were legally purchased and for all legal purposes are my legal property.
I wonder when it will be when the cost of anti copying technology for cds will drop to the point that every album in a record companies’s inventory can be copy protected?
I makes me wince just thinking about it.
I listen to stuff like black sabbath,led zeppelin, pink floyd and yes.
This stuff is over thirty years old.
led zeppelin cds sell for an average of 14 to 17 dollars.
The beatles catalog holds their value too.
I have over 800 prerecorded cds including boxsets.
I also have 100 or so dvd music videos.
clone dvd and decrypter works better than dvd x copy.
I don’t feel sorry for that silly ass robert moore of 321 studios.
I still can’t honestly believe that he could have thought that he could actually take on the likes of mr. crusty himself jack valanti and the rest of his cronies at the mpaa and their smartyass lawyers.
What a dope!!
What a sap!!
I’ll make a prediction that h.r. 107 to amend the dmca to allow for fairuse will be defeated by mpaa forces.
Mr crusty himself will again make another profound public statement on how the mpaa successfully fought back the evil public at large and menace of illegal pirating.
Yeah,the usual tasteless statements that takes the public a large to be suckers and fools.
THERE IS A SUCKER BORN EVERY MINUTE.
Of course every congress person who voted againest amending the dmca will get a bonus on the mpaa’s kickback and bribe list.
What a world!!
June 6th, 2004 at 6:26 am
Are U sure it wasn’t 9 seconds?
June 16th, 2004 at 6:36 am
It reminds me of how, I’m eventually going to stop buying cds altogether just out of spite, as is every other consumer out there. There’s a really simple formula, to getting money out of music. And thought I feel that cds and music are gradually becoming the new currency in America, the whole thing has to stop NOW.
Simple way of making money from music: Be a real musician. You don’t have to be in a band with a video, to make a living. Not all musicians deserve to be millionaires. I would say, almost none of them do. To say a musician works harder than any healthcare, construction, or civil type worker, is simply a joke. I would love to get rich doing something I enjoyed, these people are living the dream, and now more laws than ever are helping them to enjoy that dream. There are also so many musicians, opera singers, composers, independant musicians who do work on such a smaller scale. These guys work just as hard. My theory, I support the artist that supports me. I want these bands to play live, let me hear all of their music. If i can’t hear a cd in it’s entirety before I can buy it (and not just fucking samples), then they don’t deserve a penny from me.
Bad way of making money from music: Produce it on a medium, release a sample, and charge way too much to even warrant spending money on material you’ve never heard. These big companies expect people to go out and pay money for something they’ve never heard, and try to keep it that way as hard as they can. Perhaps if the cds went down in price, it’s only a piece of plastic? It would help if these companies didn’t spend billions of dollars promoting, advertising, researching new ways to keep copying under control (waste of money) and paying people to do work that has nothing to do with what you’re paying for. I’d rather pay $20 to see one live show than buy one of thousands of identical cds.
Boy am I all over the map with this thing, maybe I should have paid attention in english class.
Basically what I’m trying to say is, these companies are trying to put more value into this music that what it really is. $20 is not worth a duplicated cds worth of music, no matter how well engineered it is. These bands need to break out of their contracts and work for their money, touring and selling their material. See how it holds up without any promotion behind it, and let the music sell itself. Blah.
June 17th, 2004 at 3:45 pm
This is bull crap. I buy movies that get scratched, I’ve bought Cd’s that got scratched. I should be able to back up my own freaking material. Get the hell out of my computer with your limiting software. This is America! I’m not stealing, I’m safegarding what is mine. 321 STudios, I thank you.
June 21st, 2004 at 1:36 pm
I agree - some time ago there was an issue with the music industry where copying of albums and cassettes onto other media was a huge concern and they resolved it by charging a per item tax on all sales of cassettes and albums. I haven’t heard any crying about all of that since the tax was imposed.
A simple fee tacked on to the sale price of all CDs, LPs, cassettes, video tapes and DVDs would be a simple way to straighten this problem out so everyone would be happy.
The recording industry, and the Movie Studios need to understand that no matter what type of anti-copying protection comes out, there will always be some guy who is a hot shot on a computer who will break the encryption and offer it up.
The only people getting rich as the result of all of this are the lawyers who are filing suits repeatedly.
June 23rd, 2004 at 1:54 pm
Ah but it is possible. And sad to say we may yet to begin to see it. If they were to raise the prices of the blank media……..
June 23rd, 2004 at 10:01 pm
As great Allies to the usa i totaly agree, But here we would use the term “A LOAD OF OLD BOLLICKS” if the movie industry continue persicuting 321 studios perhaps we should hit them back where it hurt in their pocket. “DONT” buy the DVD, boycot the flicks, god its the 21st century. 321 hang in there, and god save the queen.
July 28th, 2004 at 3:44 pm
You guys in the usa are ok…..more tax is that what is needed….In uk, we pay 2X what you americans do anyway……I have a right to make a copy of all my cd’s and dvd’s! what right do the record or media companys have to take that right away from me? it cost me 1/3rd of a days wages to buy my dvd here…..it is a ripp off…and if the cd’s or dvd’s get damaged i have to go buy another one…..we do not need more tax’s becouse of greedy record or media company’s…..
thank you
edwin dodd in the uk
July 28th, 2004 at 4:04 pm
you tell them…..
August 1st, 2004 at 6:33 pm
Raising the price of blank media only quenches the thirst in “black markets..”
August 23rd, 2004 at 10:43 pm
oooo a little cry baby…grow up. stealing is not wrong unless you get caught. in fact its one of my hobbies. if you make a record, itll probuly be all crying on it about morals and religion, but…..ill still illegal downloadit just so you dont get the money.!_!